Hunter – Debunking the myths and mistruths

So a lot of you had contacted us about the “Hunter situation” here in Orange County.    Hunter is a dog at the Orange County Sheriff’s K9-Unit.  His handler, Deputy Edward Josefovitz, was leaving the department and wanted to take Hunter with him. I must say that at first I felt like I had to be on the side of the handler.  How could you live with a dog for two years and then be forced to give it up?  This poor family must be heartbroken, I thought.  So I looked for more information and all the web had was stories about how much the family loved him and that he was sick and elderly and was now living in a cement pen, depressed and dejected laying in the back of it, day after day.  I confess I was really surprised and felt terrible for these people.   So I reached out to the Sheriff’s department and spoke to Orange County Sheriff’ Carl DuBois.  I’ve known Carl for a lot of years and was really surprised that he would treat an animal this way.  REALLY surprised.  That’s because Carl is a HUGE dog lover.  In fact when his dog died this past year, he and his wife couldn’t get another one because they were so crushed and heartbroken by the loss.   So how could this situation be true?

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Well…a little conversation with Carl, and then going to see for myself (with Matt) put a lot of misconceptions to light.  I’d like to address them one by one because at first I felt so badly for this family but now I’m kind of outraged about the untruths going around, and the resultant smearing of the name of an organization that, from my eyes, is pretty incredible.  Head and shoulders above what you might think.  First, let’s address the mistruths, and then let me tell you a little about the Orange County K-9 Unit.

It was stated that Hunter, the dog, was now being held at the Training Unit, huddled in the back of his run, deeply depressed and refusing to eat.

sweet.jpgWell.  Nothing could be further from the truth. Hunter has a new handler, and I met him today.  His name is Jordan.   Deputy Jordan Forbes. Jordan is such a likable guy, I know I should refer to him as Deputy Forbes, but honestly this guy is someone you could hang out with, and watch a football game with. He is genuine and sincere.  His smile is ear to ear the entire time he works with Hunter.  It is evident in every action and every movement he LOVES working with Hunter and Hunter adores him back.  The training is based on positive rewards – the dog does what is asked of him (like sniffing out some bomb material) then he gets play time. Tug of war, or jumping and playing around with his handler.

Let me tell you about Jordan.  Jordan so wanted to be a part of this program, he bought a HOUSE. Seriously.  He lived in an apartment, and he wanted to work with the K-9’s and Carl felt that an apartment wasn’t the ideal situation for a K-9 dog.  So Jordan bought a HOUSE to better his chances of getting to work with a dog.   How’s that for someone that REALLY REALLY loves dogs?  And he got it too.  He got Hunter, when Hunter’s previous handler reneged on his commitment to the department. I’ll tell you more about that later but let me explain that Hunter lives with Jordan now and he goes home with him every single night.  Jordan’s mom made Hunter a HUGE bed.  It could fit THREE Hunter’s and it is at the foot of Jordan’s bed.  They are always together.   That is true of EVERY dog in the unit.  There is not a single dog that lives at the kennel.  Every single one goes home with their handlers, and live with them and their families.  The handlers can (and do) stay in the unit for the entire length of the dog’s involvement and then the dog can retire with them.

We also met Sergeant Dave Campbell.  He has been with his dog for ten years.  His dog is nearing retirement age, so he is now working with Scout, his next generation dog.  His older dog, Max, will retire and continue to live with him and his family. Then he will continue in the unit, with the new dog he has that is currently being trained now.  So the facts are that you CAN stay the only handler your dog ever has.  You CAN have them retire with you and then you can CONTINUE to work in this department with a new dog and have BOTH dogs live at home with you.  But this is a commitment YOU need to make if you join this unit.

Sergeant Dave is actually the one that does the interviews to get into the unit. He discusses the seriousness of entering into the unit and he – yes – he even discusses the bond you develop with your dog and how important it is that you  commit to a minimum of four years, preferably for the whole time the dog is in the unit, because of this bond.  Every person going in knows this and is made aware of the situation.  These guys want and expect you to stay with your dog for his duration in the K-9 unit. Sometimes things happen where you have to move on and they understand that – but they STILL expect, and require, a minimum of a four year commitment.

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Deputy Josefovitz wasn’t retiring.  He wasn’t moving away.  He was quitting the department and going somewhere else and wanted to take the dog with him.

Hunter is tremendously valuable to the Orange County sheriff”s department.  He ranked number 2 out of 38 teams, this past January,   in the United States Police Canine Region 7 Explosive Detector Certification Trial held in Danbury, CT.  The USPC Region 7 Trial is a rigorous test of a dog’s physical and investigative abilities. The dog that took number one is actually the number one dog in the entire nation.  The ONLY dog to beat Hunter. He is an amazing resource for them and they simply could not give him up because Josefovitz decided he didn’t want the job anymore.

hunterhappy.jpgAnd as for Hunter wallowing in misery and fear at the back of his run? Well, first there is no run that he lives in and second do these pictures look like a dog that is miserable?   No.  He appeared to be very happy.  Believe me – I can tell happy dog, from miserable dog.  I do this all day. This is one happy dog.

That’s another thing.  All the dogs here have come from a long line of dogs that were bred specifically for police work.  They aren’t your average family pet.  That is not to say that they are vicious – actually the ones we met today were also used in community relations.  These are great dogs, but they are trained and they are bred to have very high prey instinct.  They are bred to work and they are happiest working.  I understand that both Josefovitz and his wife work all day.  Hunter would have sat home, alone, for eight plus hours a day.  A dog that worked or trained every day of his life and is just six years old.  Maybe less than half his life expectancy.  He has many  good years left and seeing him work, play and train and how motivated and happy and excited he was, I can’t imagine him laying around in front of a fire waiting for someone to come home…and take him for a walk. This guy was so focused…I stood right next to him and all he was interested in was the next fun thing he and Jordan were about to do. Barely noticed me, even though I had rubbed myself entirely in baloney before I went there. OK, that’s a joke, but he really didn’t much care about me, or being pet.  He was focused, intent, and ready to go.

Additionally…ALL the dogs there were REALLY humanely treated.  They have kennels right there – heated and immaculate – because the dogs need frequent breaks. They don’t overwork them or stress them.  It was routine today to hear someone say “That was great!  He did great!  Put him up for a while, let him rest”.   And off they’d go. When the dogs MISSED their cues I held my breath. Expecting a rough snap, a harsh NO or something else.  I was pleasantly surprised.  The dog might get a light “no” if they got even that, instead they didn’t get the toy or the play reward. They just did it again. When they did it right, they got tug of war or rough housing or jumping and playing with their handler, and lots of happy verbal praise.  I couldn’t stop grinning the whole time I was there.  The dogs were HAPPY. The handlers were HAPPY. It was a happy, pleasant place.  Not because I was there either.  No one really paid us any mind, if they even noticed we were there at all.

As I said, every handler takes his dog home every night.  There are no dogs that live there or stay there. They love these dogs.  When Sergeant Campbell was talking about his dogs, he got a half smile on his face and a faraway look in his eye the entire time he was talking about them.  I see a LOT of fake “I love my dog” people as they come here to try to dump them on us “Oh but I LOVE him SO much” and lots of crocodile tears and you know as soon as they drive away they go shopping and never look back.  I KNOW phony. This was real. You can’t fake this.  This guy…LOVES his dogs.  That’s the thing. They all do. The dogs aren’t just possessions.  Objects of the county or state.  They are FRIENDS to these handlers, pals and brethren.

retireddecesed.jpgRemember  Zeus, the New Paltz police dog killed in a crash involving two patrol cars?  Many of these guys got tattoos to memoralize him and all went to his “funeral”.  Did you know that Zeus was treated just as an officer would have been?  He was AIR lifted to an emergency hospital to try to save him. These guys care. They honor and respect their dogs.  These photos hang under a sign that says RETIRED / DECEASED.

They care about Hunter. Deeply. No dog in the Orange County Sheriff’s department has ever died in the Line of Duty.  When I asked them that question every single one knocked on wood.  They said “No, NEVER” and knocked on wood. That’s twenty years.  They never lost a single one.  They did all turn out though for the memorial service of Zeus.  That’s how important these dogs are to them – on a PERSONAL level.  I know many of our volunteers also attended those services.

hunterplays.jpgIn regards to Hunter being sick and elderly with a heart condition and hind end trouble?  Well, their vet is Flannery Animal Hospital.  We use Flannery for anything our local vet, Dr. Furman (Monhagen Veterinary) can’t handle at his office.  We have always found them to be professional, extremely experienced and a pleasure to work with. They have given Hunter a 100% clean bill of health.  His heart condition is a minor murmur.  My dog has a stage five murmur…VERY serious.  We still let him run and play and he can handle just about anything. A stage one would be relatively minor and Hunter has probably had it for years. It would be no reason to retire him.  Also a dog with back hind end issues couldn’t do the things I saw Hunter doing with zest and glee today.  He’d be sore and achy.  I have had MANY dogs with hind end issues and we have had many here at Pets Alive. This dog didn’t have any of that.

So I’m not sure what we’re left with.  The fact that they offered the county $7000 for the dog?  I find that very noble, and a wonderful, gracious gesture.   The problem, unfortunately is that it isn’t about money.  It costs much more than that to train a dog to the level Hunter is and the facts are that they need this dog. He is an integral part of the unit.  Hunter was never a price tag to this department.

The easiest solution it appears to me would be for Josefovitz to just have followed through with the commitment and promise he made when he took the job.  Then he would still be with Hunter, he would still be a part of the unit and his dog would have retired with him, and poor Deputy Jordan would be living in a new house, with a huge dog bed and still waiting for his chance (smile).  But yes, I DO feel and recognize the emotional side of it and I DO sympathize with that.  Anyone who has ever had a dog would recognize that.  But the dog could still be with him.  In my opinion, he made these choices himself that resulted in him being without the dog.   Should the Sheriff’s Department be smeared as a result? I think that’s unfair.

I find the coverage grossly exaggerated and uneven.  That’s why I’m writing this blog.   There is a huge other side to this that just isn’t being presented.

I’ll always be on the side of the animal.

In this case – after what I’ve seen today?  Hunter is deleriously happy.  He’s doing what he absolutely loves to do and he is spending every day with a group of people that really love him.

So that’s my take on it.

Trust me, this dog is not abused, mistreated or anywhere near ready to retire.

He’s loving life, loving work, and at the end of the day laying in a big bed with the guy who I’d guess is gonna be retiring him one day and where he’ll spend his golden years…and be copiously wept over when he does finally pass ……. by a bunch of burly guys in blue.

Go Hunter.

Thank you for your service to our community.

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Filed in Uncategorized by kerry on Nov 24, 2009.  There are 24 Comments

24 Responses to “Hunter – Debunking the myths and mistruths”

  1. Russ Says:

    Thanks Kerry for your insight and investigative reporting..As a member of USPCA Region 7 and former handler of 3 police dogs and Supervisor, I know Dave Campbell and consider him a top notch K-9 Supervisor and handler, as are all the men and women from Region 7 and the OCSD K-9 division..Although personally, I would like to see Hunter at his 2nd handlers home, maybe because I wouldn’t want that to happen to me as a K-9 cop, I see both sides. The only down side is Hunters age, but if he keeps going, god bless him. I understand the fight to keep Hunter at his handlers house because I would have engaged in the same fight..I wish there was some preventive action taken by way of a release that all handlers should sign before committing to such an elite unit..There are no winners in this struggle..
    Russ

  2. kerry Says:

    Russ – I agree. I too would fight for my dog, EVEN if it was my own fault that I was in the predicament. I don’t blame them at all for trying to keep a dog they bonded with, and I respect that they offered to try to compensate financially. I am ALSO NOT SAYING THAT THE FAMILY is spreading all the lies and mistruths above. I am not saying that at ALL. I am seeing LOT of untrue things on the internet though and people are taking the story and twisting it. It is truly sullying the name of the K-9 unit which is what I am trying to set straight.

    Thanks for your comments!

  3. Karen Smithers Says:

    OH THANK YOU SO MUCH Kerry for investigating this! I have been sick with worry over Hunter. Just sick about it. I can’t tell you how grateful I am that you guys looked into this and that Hunter is well. The pictures make him look SO happy. He really does look like he is doing well. Thanks so much. I can sleep at night now.

  4. Melissa Says:

    Oh you’ve been fooled cupcake! Let me got through “them one by one”

    Who cares that he bought a house so he could work with K-9’s? So did Hunter’s last partner.

    Who cares that Hunter has a handmade bed? He had his own mattress and two other dogs he played with.

    There was no commitment. How many times do we need to say that?

    Again, the “retiring” thing was a mistake made by News 12, which they later corrected on air.

    Ed did not want to take Hunter to the new department, there isn’t even a K-9 unit over there.

    “do these pictures look like a dog that is miserable?” He’s playing…dogs like to play. You really don’t think he misses his family?

    “Hunter would have sat home, alone, for eight plus hours a day.” You’re assuming. You have no idea what Hunter’s days would be like in retirement.

    “just six years old” seven.

    “Maybe less than half his life expectancy” you know he has heart disease right?

    “They don’t overwork them or stress them” I guess you don’t know about his heart disease. Taking an ill 7 year old dog and putting him through intense training (video in the discussion board) IS overworking.

    “They have given Hunter a 100% clean bill of health” They didn’t know about Hunter changing handlers and going through the training. Hunter was approved for day-to-day work (mostly nothing) only.

    “Hunter has probably had it for years” They first found it in April of this year.

    ” Also a dog with back hind end issues couldn’t do the things I saw Hunter doing with zest and glee today.” Like arthritis, there are good days and bad days.

    “he easiest solution it appears to me would be for Josefovitz to just have followed through with the commitment and promise he made when he took the job. ” Man, the OCSO really got to you huh? Again, there was no commitment.

    “There is a huge other side to this that just isn’t being presented.” Look in the discussion board….

    “I’ll always be on the side of the animal.” Not this time, you showed more concerned about Jordon than Hunter.

    “Hunter is deleriously happy” Have you ever seen a starving dog be given food? Their deliriously deliriously happy…still abused though.

  5. Melissa Ribas Says:

    I am so glad to see Hunter looks happy and Jordan is doing very well with him. We miss Hunter and hope that his happiness continues for the rest of his career.

    I absolutely agree with Kerry saying people are taking story and twisting it around.

    Thank you for following up on the story.

    Melissa A. Ribas- Hunter’s Mom

  6. kerry Says:

    Melissa R – what a gracious post. I can’t imagine how very difficult it must have been to let go of a dog that you loved. I’m deeply touched that you wish him well.

  7. kerry Says:

    Dear Melissa – I didn’t mean to imply he wanted to take the dog with him to WORK elsewhere. If that was implied, that was not my intent. I was saying that he wanted to take the dog when he left for HIM to work elsewhere. That was a tricky sentence but that wasn’t what I meant. I apologize if that was misconstrued.

    I appreciate you calling me cupcake.
    >>–noun: a sexually attractive young woman.
    Why thank you! :) I’m married though!

    About the house purchase? I’m impressed that Jordan did that AND impressed that previous handler did that. Shows a great desire to be in the unit. Impressive for both of them.

    “Who cares he has his own bed?”
    Why I think that is a very nice point. You seem to be missing the point though. The point is not that he was treated badly in his previous home. No one has said that and I definitely did not. In fact I imply that he must have been very well loved in his previous home to have been the subject of this battle. I can’t imagine having to give him up. I never ever implied he was EVER mistreated at the hands of his previous handler. I think Hunter has been treated well by everyone he has come in contact with. I’m not sure why you’re saying I have implied anything else. I’m not!

    “Playing dogs don’t look miserable.”
    No. Sometimes working dogs DO. The dog was working too. Then he was put up to rest. He never looked miserable at all the whole time I was there. Some emails I got said he was kept in a tiny cement run that was filthy and he was pressed against the back and wouldn’t eat or come out. My point in showing the pictures and pointing them out was that these interpretations couldn’t be further from the truth. I also never said that the Josefovitz family EVER said those things but these ARE some of the things being talked about on the web. In fact I even saw a picture of a dog that WAS NOT EVEN Hunter that was in a filthy cement run, that people were claiming was him. So the very point of the blog was to point out that these things were not true and people were twisting a great deal about this.

    You keep pointing out about commitment but every handler there says they agreed to give four years. While there was probably never a written commitment, no one ever claimed there was. It was an expected commitment is what I understood. I can’t comment on their policies or provide any proof, this IS what I heard from a few of them though. It seemed that the officers knew that it was expected for them to stay in the program for four years. EXPECTED to commit to that. Not contracted.

    In regards to medical, again, I have a dog that has a murmur that is a stage 5. He isn’t expected to live all that long. However he can still run around, play and have a great time. It doesn’t mean he has to live a sedentary life and in fact I want him to live life to the fullest and do everything he can, if he is not to be here that long. Then again that is a stage 5…very serious. Dogs with serious murmurs show you VERY clearly that they are having trouble. They start coughing, they can’t catch their breath – I live with this every day. I’m REALLY familiar with it. I watched Hunter work and he exhibited no signs of breathing stress, Melissa. None. I can’t imagine that he would be forced to work when he couldn’t breathe. Are you really trying to tell me you think that he can’t breathe and they are going to force him through rigorous training? Come on. Even you can’t really believe that can you? I don’t think a single guy there would see a dog having trouble and struggling and force him to continue. It was clear to me that these guys loved their dogs…Like Ed did.

    In regards to retirement – you are absolutely right on that point. However, as you are aware I DO know something about you. Remember? I have your application. It says that you both work, but you walk the dogs at the dog park on weekends and you walk the dogs a LOT other times. We approved you as a family. We think you’re great dog owners. We placed one of my favorite dogs with you. This isn’t about if you were good to Hunter or would continue to be. I have TREMENDOUS sympathy for you. But this is about if the O.C. K-9 unit should be subjected to the smearing that they are getting and the lies that are being spread. I don’t think that they deserve that. That’s the point of this blog – NOT to say you guys are terrible and you shouldn’t have the dog. No way. I state many times that I feel for you. Very much. But it is clear that the dog is still needed and if Ed had stayed in the job he would still have the dog. I don’t know what else to say in regards to that. I have absolutely no ill will toward you and I think you’re wonderful dog people. If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t be so upset and you wouldn’t have wanted to keep Hunter. So I think that is REALLY clear here, and no one doubts that if Hunter had stayed with you he ALSO would have been well loved.
    … but he isn’t being mistreated here.
    That’s all I can say.

    “Have you ever seen a starving dog be given food? Their deliriously deliriously happy…still abused though.”
    Well, actually you have come to the right place. I have seen HUNDREDS of starved dogs given food. They aren’t deliriously happy. If a dog has been a abused and is starved he usually eats in a very hurried, fast, quick, furtive way and if you move while they are eating they cower. I’m sorry but that analogy won’t work here. I’m definitely experienced in THIS field. Laugh! Give me a better one because that one won’t fly at an animal sanctuary. But all kidding aside, I see the point you are trying to make…but Hunter wasn’t depressed. I’m sorry. I know you must want him to be missing you all terribly and imagine him suffering but dogs are very resilient. Sometimes we place dogs in three or FOUR different homes. They easily attach to their new owners.

    It isn’t so easy for those of us that lose them though. They definitely attach and can go on much easier than we can. There ARE the rare exceptions but my vast experience at placing dogs show that they can and do attach readily to their next human. Luka has been in three homes. I think you are his fourth. Would you say he is depressed and missing his previous homes? No, but I bet the people that had to give him up are still suffering their loss.

    Melissa, I feel for you.
    I REALLY REALLY TRULY do.
    I’m sorry that you lost a dog that you got attached to.
    I REALLY am.
    But the facts are that Hunter is doing ok and that the K-9 unit does need him and that was the only point of this blog. Never to sully you or your family but some of the stuff going around on the web is just nuts.

    As you know from your Facebook page -you can block those that disagree with you. I’ve let you have your say here. I respect how you feel. But that’s all I can say.

    As Russ says, this is just a terrible situation all around, but I’ll repeat that Hunter is doing well. I hope that gives you SOME solace.

  8. Melissa Ribas Says:

    Kerry- I am Melissa A. Ribas- Ed Josefovitz wife, Hunter’s Mom. The other Melissa is a good friend of mine who has helped me a great deal in fighting for Hunter. I didn’t take my husband’s last name. It appears to be very confusing to many because we have the same first named. Just fyi i have always signed my last name on my posts.

    Thank you EVERYONE for your support!! What I have been fighting for has taking place!! This whole argument for me was concerning the happiness and well being of Hunter. Thanks to the story from Pets Alive it is obvious Hunter is happy and doing what he is meant to do. We miss him and always will miss him but at this time I am done posting. Thank you so much Melissa for setting this site up for me. Your efforts have meant the world!!! I think its time to shut down.

  9. Melissa Says:

    you’re confusing me with a different melissa.

    as for the analogy, I’m not talking about a dog that is on the verge of death. I know that an extremely emaciated dog won’t eat that much when you give him food.

    You cannot tell if a dog is happy just by watching him play for the day. You have no idea what is going on with him.

    Do you have/had a german shepherd? They truly are a one person dog, they do not adjust well to new households and have trust issues.

    And I don’t know who is telling you those lies, but I’ve never heard them before. Please try to stick with people with first hand knowledge (the Joseovitz & the OCSO) and not anonymous comments.

  10. kerry Says:

    Sorry about the confusion Melissa’s. Sigh.
    We should delete the whole thread and start over.

    Melissa J – awesome.
    That’s amazing of you to make that comment.
    Truly amazing.
    You had a lot of choices here as to how to react.
    Astounding what you chose!

    As to the other Melissa – I don’t know what else to tell you. I don’t want to debate it any more, I never really did. I was upset about the whole thing. That’s why I followed up. It sucks all around. I think it’s done though and I think the Josefovitz’ are wonderful people and I think the K-9 Unit is a respectful place of people that care. I am sorry that anyone suffers – human or animal. I always am, and I see a lot of suffering.

    Take care everyone and Melissa J – kudos to you.

  11. Melissa Says:

    Melissa Ribas says it’s done, so there really isn’t much more I can do. But I will never let people forget about this. This is not right.

  12. Russ Says:

    Well, I hope the new handler, Jordan, is successful for not only the OCSD, but us citizens! I am sorry he has been thrust into this position, but judging by the smile on his face he has a great disposition and deserves to be in an elite unit, such as the K-9 teams of OCSD..He doesn’t deserve this kind of negative start to a K-9 career, however he is just doing what we all pay him to do, his job..He looks happy to protect and serve us! That’s the sign of a great K-9 handler, and I can see he will be one of them..We never heard him bitch about his thrust into this situation..I can say that being a K-9 handler you are tickled to death about being selected..I am sure that Ed and his family would be able to have “play dates” with Jordan and Hunter, because Jordan does not look like a person who holds a grudge..Again the OCSD K-9 Teams are probably some of the best in the Country..I really mean that..They train hard time and time again because OUR lives depend on it and they know that! Lets take time to sit back, honor Hunter’s service, and even Ed’s, to not only OCSD, but America..If he, Hunter, finds one thing that may harm us, it may save generations..Thank you OCSD, Thank you Ed and Melissa, Thank you Kerry and PA, and most of all Thank you Hunter..Hunter, someone caught in the middle unable to pass judgement and if he could, probably wouldn’t! Thanks Jordan, for all you put up with, including probably myself, but you will learn from this and be a stronger person and better handler..Be safe, and Hunter be safe..Make us all proud!!
    My peace!! Russ

  13. Steven Says:

    Kerry~ Thanks for the TRUTH, and kudos for being tolerant of sarcasm. Cupcake?? Wow, that must have really hurt(lol)!! You can tell by a few of the postings that it’s their way or the highway. It must be an awful responsibility for both Melissa’s knowing everything. They really believe they know more than dog trainers, veterinarians, TV reporters, you, and the list goes on. Are there really two of them, or just one?? Facebook and medication can be a dangerous mixture.

  14. Cindi Says:

    Kerri-

    I think your story is grossly exaggerated and uneven as you stated about Hunter’s!! I am extremely upset with Pets Alive organization for not taking the time to interview the family along with other sources. Are you one of those animal activist that will only make a difference if a dog has physically signs of being abused? It appears so.

    No one has looked at Hunter’s story from this view -Hunter is 7 year old not 6, has done a incredible job for the county and has underwent a great deal of separation from his handlers. Enough! He doesn’t deserve this regardless of what has happened with the handlers. By the OCSO being offered a $6900 from the second handler’s family for them to purchase a new dog for the new handler so he wouldn’t have to ever go through what the family has with Hunter is AMAZING. The OCSO would have a new dog for many years and turning it down simply shows they are being vindictive!! The OCSO is constantly calling asking for donations. The new handler, by state law, will have to go through the same amount of training as another handler would go through with a new younger dog. This doesn’t make sense about the time invested in training as you indicate in your blog. If Hunter doesn’t listen to his third handler how his those years of training going to make a difference? It clearly shows the OCSO is willing to take the possible chance of risking peoples lives assuming Hunter will transition well, and obey/listen his new third handler under ever situation. This is not about Hunter placing second in competitions. It’s about his day to day work, listening and obeying his handler to make a difference within the community. I heard most of the job entails tracking suspects which by the way how does Hunter do with this?

    I have never read Hunter being abused on his face book page?? Please share these sources you came across? Also you stated you “felt so badly for this family but now I’m kind of outraged about the untruths going around, and the resultant smearing of the name of an organization that, from my eyes, is pretty incredible”. That statement entails you are blaming the family for what has taken place? From what i have seen on Hunter’s face book page both sides are presented!! There was never any information that was misleading. The report from Hunter’s cardiologist was on there. It appears they stated the facts. The wife of the second handler was concerned that based on what they have experience with hunter during the second transition, the separation from them, the new environment with the new handler and undergoing the intense academy for the third time is going to hurt Hunter.The OCSO and your blog keeps up bringing the handler is not retiring as a point to justify OCSO actions.If you were a supporter as you indicated, on Hunter’s page it states the handler was moving on to another department and the amount of years he did within the program. Channel 12 news did a follow up story indicating the mistake.

    I think the public got an idea of the hostile work environment from Captain Barry’s and the Under sheriff’s comments about the handler and to the public. This was extremely unprofessional but you claim this is a pretty incredible organization. I am sure you read their comments on the examiner did you? Also on Hunter’s discussion page and the OCSO website? It’s very professional for a high ranked police officer to state Hunter is better asset to the department then the 2nd handler ever was or the new handler has a better bond then the 2nd handler did or most of all on the examiner stating they didn’t like the 2nd handler. Again, the organization is incredible right?

    You seem to leave a great deal of information out of your blog? Were you aware that the second handler went through a difficult transition with Hunter because he was separated from his first handler? Are you aware that the K9 Sgt Dave Campbell turned his back on the situation when the family needed his help the most and there only alternative was to turn to Flannary Animal hospital. Did you ask Flannary Animal Hospital for their comments on the situation? I sure politics plays a role since a majority of their income is from the OCSO. It appears it got extremely bad where Hunter aggression towards his second handlers was worsening due to the separation from his first handler. It was stated the 2nd handler spent months laying on the floor while Hunter was growling so he gain his trust. This was occurring when Hunter was undergoing Patrol School not Explosives where you see him to be deliriously happy. Do you know the difference between the training programs. The patrol school Hunter will undergo after this training is when he will need to learn commands and most of all learn how to listen/obey his handler. I think this is where citizens should be concerned. Do you think Hunter will be perfectly obedient and listen to his third handler? If the second handler had a difficult time I am sure the third handler will too. Is this fair to Hunter or the community? Are you aware in patrol school if the dog is having a difficult time listing to the handler they will use the disciplinary action of helicoptering the dog .I would ask Sgt Dave Campbell to give details to you on this and if this is fair for a seven year old dog with a heart condition and who is going through his third transition with a new handler to go through this?

    Your article discusses a minimum of a four year commitment. I am just curious to why the first handler wasn’t able to keep hunter after fulfilling his commitment to the organization. To me it sounds like they were once again being vindictive to their own. I can’t imagine what the first family and handler went through when hunter was taken from them. So if the second handler passed up the opportunity to better his life for his family and Hunter and remained within in the program for four years do you honestly think they would allow Hunter to retire with his second handler after not continuing within K9?

    From sources around the country it appears these K9 dogs are retired between the age of 7 and 8. For some odd reason the OCSO is stating Hunter is 6, i would ask the second handler for a copy of his birth certificate? I’m sure the family has one since they have provided a copy of hunter’s cardiologist report for the public. Sgt Dave Campbell appears to not know much about his dogs, is not respected for his opinions within OCSO and it’s another way for the OCSO to justify their actions.

    My last point, there must of been valid reasons why the 2nd handler left the department, the first handler didn’t renew his term, why a high percentage of police officers leaving the OCSO, and why there are several lawsuits against them? Time will tell you trust me you will be extremely embarrassed of how you stated the organization from your eyes is incredible. But again you did your research and presented a story from your eyes and the OCSO perspective. My donations will be given else where.

  15. cindi Says:

    Not sure why you haven’t posted my response?? It’s clear that you are picking and choosing the resonses that you want to hear?? I will lneed to inform the public.

    Kerri-
    I think your story is grossly exaggerated and uneven as you stated about Hunter’s!! I am extremely upset with Pets Alive organization for not taking the time to interview the family along with other sources. Are you one of those animal activist that will only make a difference if a dog has physically signs of being abused? It appears so.
    No one has looked at Hunter’s story from this view -Hunter is 7 year old not 6, has done a incredible job for the county and has underwent a great deal of separation from his handlers. Enough! He doesn’t deserve this regardless of what has happened with the handlers. By the OCSO being offered a $6900 from the second handler’s family for them to purchase a new dog for the new handler so he wouldn’t have to ever go through what the family has with Hunter is AMAZING. The OCSO would have a new dog for many years and turning it down simply shows they are being vindictive!! The OCSO is constantly calling asking for donations. The new handler, by state law, will have to go through the same amount of training as another handler would go through with a new younger dog. This doesn’t make sense about the time invested in training as you indicate in your blog. If Hunter doesn’t listen to his third handler how his those years of training going to make a difference? It clearly shows the OCSO is willing to take the possible chance of risking peoples lives assuming Hunter will transition well, and obey/listen his new third handler under ever situation. This is not about Hunter placing second in competitions. It’s about his day to day work, listening and obeying his handler to make a difference within the community. I heard most of the job entails tracking suspects which by the way how does Hunter do with this?
    I have never read Hunter being abused on his face book page?? Please share these sources you came across? Also you stated you “felt so badly for this family but now I’m kind of outraged about the untruths going around, and the resultant smearing of the name of an organization that, from my eyes, is pretty incredible”. That statement entails you are blaming the family for what has taken place? From what i have seen on Hunter’s face book page both sides are presented!! There was never any information that was misleading. The report from Hunter’s cardiologist was on there. It appears they stated the facts. The wife of the second handler was concerned that based on what they have experience with hunter during the second transition, the separation from them, the new environment with the new handler and undergoing the intense academy for the third time is going to hurt Hunter.The OCSO and your blog keeps up bringing the handler is not retiring as a point to justify OCSO actions.If you were a supporter as you indicated, on Hunter’s page it states the handler was moving on to another department and the amount of years he did within the program. Channel 12 news did a follow up story indicating the mistake.
    I think the public got an idea of the hostile work environment from Captain Barry’s and the Under sheriff’s comments about the handler and to the public. This was extremely unprofessional but you claim this is a pretty incredible organization. I am sure you read their comments on the examiner did you? Also on Hunter’s discussion page and the OCSO website? It’s very professional for a high ranked police officer to state Hunter is better asset to the department then the 2nd handler ever was or the new handler has a better bond then the 2nd handler did or most of all on the examiner stating they didn’t like the 2nd handler. Again, the organization is incredible right?
    You seem to leave a great deal of information out of your blog? Were you aware that the second handler went through a difficult transition with Hunter because he was separated from his first handler? Are you aware that the K9 Sgt Dave Campbell turned his back on the situation when the family needed his help the most and there only alternative was to turn to Flannary Animal hospital. Did you ask Flannary Animal Hospital for their comments on the situation? I sure politics plays a role since a majority of their income is from the OCSO. It appears it got extremely bad where Hunter aggression towards his second handlers was worsening due to the separation from his first handler. It was stated the 2nd handler spent months laying on the floor while Hunter was growling so he gain his trust. This was occurring when Hunter was undergoing Patrol School not Explosives where you see him to be deliriously happy. Do you know the difference between the training programs. The patrol school Hunter will undergo after this training is when he will need to learn commands and most of all learn how to listen/obey his handler. I think this is where citizens should be concerned. Do you think Hunter will be perfectly obedient and listen to his third handler? If the second handler had a difficult time I am sure the third handler will too. Is this fair to Hunter or the community? Are you aware in patrol school if the dog is having a difficult time listing to the handler they will use the disciplinary action of helicoptering the dog .I would ask Sgt Dave Campbell to give details to you on this and if this is fair for a seven year old dog with a heart condition and who is going through his third transition with a new handler to go through this?
    Your article discusses a minimum of a four year commitment. I am just curious to why the first handler wasn’t able to keep hunter after fulfilling his commitment to the organization. To me it sounds like they were once again being vindictive to their own. I can’t imagine what the first family and handler went through when hunter was taken from them. So if the second handler passed up the opportunity to better his life for his family and Hunter and remained within in the program for four years do you honestly think they would allow Hunter to retire with his second handler after not continuing within K9?
    From sources around the country it appears these K9 dogs are retired between the age of 7 and 8. For some odd reason the OCSO is stating Hunter is 6, i would ask the second handler for a copy of his birth certificate? I’m sure the family has one since they have provided a copy of hunter’s cardiologist report for the public. Sgt Dave Campbell appears to not know much about his dogs, is not respected for his opinions within OCSO and it’s another way for the OCSO to justify their actions.
    My last point, there must of been valid reasons why the 2nd handler left the department, the first handler didn’t renew his term, why a high percentage of police officers leaving the OCSO, and why there are several lawsuits against them? Time will tell you trust me you will be extremely embarrassed of how you stated the organization from your eyes is incredible. But again you did your research and presented a story from your eyes and the OCSO perspective. My donations will be given else where.

  16. Melissa Says:

    what Kerry posted isn’t the truth, she says herself that she wrote this blog based on the things she heard from others besides myself or Ribas. All I can say for now is check back when Hunter is in Patrol school.

    There was a very important comment that was made here about it, but Kerry deleted it. The person who wrote it sent it to me and it’s posted in the group if you would like to read it.

    Although I’m sure Kerry will delete this comment as well, but at least we have that comment posted somewhere.

    I wouldn’t have gotten this involved with this if I hadn’t contact vets, k-9 officers, etc. about this. Don’t be silly! I don’t base everything I know on the words from my friends.

    There isn’t two, there is almost 6,000. Lots of information (including information from both sides) is in the group.

    And Kerry took the “cupcake” thing as a compliment (see post #7), so calm down. I’m just trying to be friendly to you all!

  17. Melissa Says:

    Here is what was sent to me, but was deleted here for reasons unknown (The girl’s name was either Cindi or Carol, I can’t remember):

    “Kerri-
    I think your story is grossly exaggerated and uneven as you stated about Hunter’s!! I am extremely upset with Pets Alive organization for not taking the time to interview the family along with other sources. Are you one of those animal activist that will only make a difference if a dog has physically signs of being abused? It appears so.
    No one has looked at Hunter’s story from this view -Hunter is 7 year old not 6, has done a incredible job for the county and has underwent a great deal of separation from his handlers. Enough! He doesn’t deserve this regardless of what has happened with the handlers. By the OCSO being offered a $6900 from the second handler’s family for them to purchase a new dog for the new handler so he wouldn’t have to ever go through what the family has with Hunter is AMAZING. The OCSO would have a new dog for many years and turning it down simply shows they are being vindictive!! The OCSO is constantly calling asking for donations. The new handler, by state law, will have to go through the same amount of training as another handler would go through with a new younger dog. This doesn’t make sense about the time invested in training as you indicate in your blog. If Hunter doesn’t listen to his third handler how his those years of training going to make a difference? It clearly shows the OCSO is willing to take the possible chance of risking peoples lives assuming Hunter will transition well, and obey/listen his new third handler under ever situation. This is not about Hunter placing second in competitions. It’s about his day to day work, listening and obeying his handler to make a difference within the community. I heard most of the job entails tracking suspects which by the way how does Hunter do with this?
    I have never read Hunter being abused on his face book page?? Please share these sources you came across? Also you stated you “felt so badly for this family but now I’m kind of outraged about the untruths going around, and the resultant smearing of the name of an organization that, from my eyes, is pretty incredible”. That statement entails you are blaming the family for what has taken place? From what i have seen on Hunter’s face book page both sides are presented!! There was never any information that was misleading. The report from Hunter’s cardiologist was on there. It appears they stated the facts. The wife of the second handler was concerned that based on what they have experience with hunter during the second transition, the separation from them, the new environment with the new handler and undergoing the intense academy for the third time is going to hurt Hunter.The OCSO and your blog keeps up bringing the handler is not retiring as a point to justify OCSO actions.If you were a supporter as you indicated, on Hunter’s page it states the handler was moving on to another department and the amount of years he did within the program. Channel 12 news did a follow up story indicating the mistake.
    I think the public got an idea of the hostile work environment from Captain Barry’s and the Under sheriff’s comments about the handler and to the public. This was extremely unprofessional but you claim this is a pretty incredible organization. I am sure you read their comments on the examiner did you? Also on Hunter’s discussion page and the OCSO website? It’s very professional for a high ranked police officer to state Hunter is better asset to the department then the 2nd handler ever was or the new handler has a better bond then the 2nd handler did or most of all on the examiner stating they didn’t like the 2nd handler. Again, the organization is incredible right?
    You seem to leave a great deal of information out of your blog? Were you aware that the second handler went through a difficult transition with Hunter because he was separated from his first handler? Are you aware that the K9 Sgt Dave Campbell turned his back on the situation when the family needed his help the most and there only alternative was to turn to Flannary Animal hospital. Did you ask Flannary Animal Hospital for their comments on the situation? I sure politics plays a role since a majority of their income is from the OCSO. It appears it got extremely bad where Hunter aggression towards his second handlers was worsening due to the separation from his first handler. It was stated the 2nd handler spent months laying on the floor while Hunter was growling so he gain his trust. This was occurring when Hunter was undergoing Patrol School not Explosives where you see him to be deliriously happy. Do you know the difference between the training programs. The patrol school Hunter will undergo after this training is when he will need to learn commands and most of all learn how to listen/obey his handler. I think this is where citizens should be concerned. Do you think Hunter will be perfectly obedient and listen to his third handler? If the second handler had a difficult time I am sure the third handler will too. Is this fair to Hunter or the community? Are you aware in patrol school if the dog is having a difficult time listing to the handler they will use the disciplinary action of helicoptering the dog .I would ask Sgt Dave Campbell to give details to you on this and if this is fair for a seven year old dog with a heart condition and who is going through his third transition with a new handler to go through this?
    Your article discusses a minimum of a four year commitment. I am just curious to why the first handler wasn’t able to keep hunter after fulfilling his commitment to the organization. To me it sounds like they were once again being vindictive to their own. I can’t imagine what the first family and handler went through when hunter was taken from them. So if the second handler passed up the opportunity to better his life for his family and Hunter and remained within in the program for four years do you honestly think they would allow Hunter to retire with his second handler after not continuing within K9?
    From sources around the country it appears these K9 dogs are retired between the age of 7 and 8. For some odd reason the OCSO is stating Hunter is 6, i would ask the second handler for a copy of his birth certificate? I’m sure the family has one since they have provided a copy of hunter’s cardiologist report for the public. Sgt Dave Campbell appears to not know much about his dogs, is not respected for his opinions within OCSO and it’s another way for the OCSO to justify their actions.
    My last point, there must of been valid reasons why the 2nd handler left the department, the first handler didn’t renew his term, why a high percentage of police officers leaving the OCSO, and why there are several lawsuits against them? Time will tell you trust me you will be extremely embarrassed of how you stated the organization from your eyes is incredible. But again you did your research and presented a story from your eyes and the OCSO perspective. My donations will be given else where.”

    Kerri, if anything that this girl said was false, please clarify instead of deleting the comment. Is there anything here that is untrue? Please let me know and I will amend or delete this comment from the group. Thanks

  18. cindi Says:

    Now this makes sense Kerri – your friend with the new handler?? Got it! Kerri- do me favor since you haven’t listed ALL the facts in your story only the OCSO opinion, please contact Hunter vet and ask for a copy of his medical records. In there you will see the owner/vet recommended Hunter to get neutured and see a behaviorilst due to the agression towards the second handler when Hunter was going through patrol school. Hunter was neutured due to his agression. I understand your concern for your friend but please keep in mind this was the OCSO decesion. If they has enought respect for the new handler, they would have given him a brand new dog with the money donated so he could have a fresh new start. They feel placing 2nd in competetions is more important then Hunter listening and obeying his handler. If you speak with the previous handler I am sure you will understand the transitiion problem the family went through.

  19. kerry Says:

    Umm, I have not deleted a thing.

    If you are not approved for posting the posts sit in a queue and have to wait for approval to avoid spam filling the blogs. It’s been a holiday week – I;ve been VERY busy and YOU PEOPLE are NOT my top priority. Remember? We savelives? Kinda important, much more so than running over here to approve or DELETE your silly posts.

    Stop your accusations. No one has been nasty to you, and I don’t appreciate your nastiness. If this continues you will be blocked AND deleted….but you are missing the point. This is NOT a debate and not UP for debate. This is MY views on what *I* saw. Period. You have more than enough posts on your Facebook and websites to substantiate your opinion. And as for me being friends with the handler. Oh goodness. Enough – you people are paranoid. I never met him before that day. Geez. Now I’m really starting to think you’re all nuts and before this I did have some respect for your opinion but your nastiness, your accusations and your paranoia are a bit over the top ,no? Now this is MY blog and I can have MY opinion and I’ll share it where I wish. If you don’t like it, then go to YOUR blog and post YOUR venom and hatred. The previous OWNER of the dog has said she is happy and satisfied. Yet you crazies are still going on and on. It’s very weird.

    I think you need something more to do. You have way too much time on your hands. Hey I have a great idea! Why don’t you find a local no kill animal sanctuary and volunteer your voluminous time there by trying to help some animals?

  20. Peggy Says:

    Kerry-
    I just wanted to THANK YOU for writing on your blog in a public forum to “Debunking the myths and mistruths” of Hunter’s story. I received Hunter’s story in October from a well intentioned friend. As I read the headlines it became obvious the “cause” did not have the facts to back content or Headlines. Basic questions that were the heart of the story were void. As follows;

    What was Hunter’s Heart Disease? What was his diagnoses and prognosis?

    Why did his handler leave the OCSD prior to securing the fate of Hunter’s future with his family?

    K9 Officer’s are expected to make a commitment for a duration of time prior to being assigned into k9. Due to the training dog to human bond. Additionally, the cost of training both k9 and handler.

    Retirement age of the average working k9- a subjective issue.

    The offer of 6,900 dollars to replace Hunter with a new dog.
    (The cause never once disclosed Hunter’s High Rankings in Explosive Detection, rather lead supporter to believe it was as simple for the OCSD to buy another k9)

    However, with the articles written in the Examiner by Penny Eims, News Coverage and Hunter’s “Stop the Orange County Sheriff’s Department from Killing Hunter” Facebook cause. Beyond the titles of video “OCSD is torturing this Dog” yes, they used the word “torture” a very disturbing word to anyone that loves animals and or is in Animal Welfare. Hunter is going to “Die”. Repeated head-lines that lured well intentioned animal lovers to this cause with natural instincts to protect and attempt to help this dog those basic questions were never answered with any clarity in any forum prior to yours, again THANK YOU.

    As I read the articles and the Facebook cause contexts fortunately for Hunter the Head-lines did not translate to his purported health issues.

    I would read the volumes of comments concerning Hunter’s cause still the questions above were unanswered and void. Yet, supporters were urged to fight for Hunter. I cannot fight without knowing the facts of my cause. Was I the only one noticing the voids and unanswered questions? I did ask questions such as those above. I was “blocked” from the facebook cause.

    As a animal lover that does my fair share of rescues whom like yourself, kerry and so many others that may be reading this I felt preyed upon after stepping back and questioning the lack of facts.

    Anyone that understands Animal Welfare knows that we are a very tight knit group with the same values. If someone ask us to help we come. As apparent with the nearly 6000 supporters that joined “Hunters cause”. It’s very disheartening to find out that your time and thoughts were misused and most importantly your heart for a “Agenda” far beyond Hunter’s Health and Well being. The Agenda against the OCSD.

    So, thank you for giving us a forum that “Debunks” the cause. I did and remain to feel a loss for Hunter’s family I think that’s a natural feeling. But, that is also why Hunter’s Plight gained so many well intentioned supporters where emotion stepped in the way of seeing or asking more questions. I know the “cause” administrators (other) understands that was the Human Factor that she was able to control people with like “puppets”. And, that is wrong. 6000 people are being lead by a person named “other”. That was a “red flag” I’d say.

    As for the writer of the original Hunter stories in the Examiner, Penny Eims. And those that may be reading this now it is a “Blog” a blog a private forum. Kerry is not held by any Journalists standards of protocol. The Examiner is a News Publications with that bare responsility to reseach, interview and tell bothside of the story. The opionion of the writer is limited to her Professional expertise in a certain field in which she specializes.

    Again, thank you for letting us know that Hunter is doing well.

  21. Steve Says:

    Kerry~ Again, thanks for the TRUTH. I read that this Melissa character is a 21 year “I know it all” going to school in a foreign country. Go figure. Did we all know everything when we were 21? AGAIN, a great responsibility knowing everything. Funny, she din’t even figure out the sarcasm in “Cupcake”. Even though you “interviewed Hunter” & his handler, she knows more than you. Are you really surprised? You are correct, some people have too much time on their hands. Did everyone notice she didn’t respond to the mention of medication? Must have caused a vibration or two in the old tuning fork. Well, I’m sure all Sheriff’s Offices follow the advice of 21 year olds. NOT. Calm down & silly. OOH!! That really hurt. Maybe you should take a good look in the mirror and you might, just might figure out who needs to calm down and not act silly. Look at the length and content of your post.

    Kerry, keep up the good work. Some people talk the talk, but you WALK the WALK. Thanks again for all you do for animals. It’s refreshing to hear the truth from someone who really knows what they are talking about, and not say they have “contacted” others. You notice she didn’t name names or organizations. Another void, Peggy, and you can guess what part of the body, and anyplace below the neck is not an option.

  22. Melissa A. Ribas Says:

    Kerri-

    This needs to stop. It appears the undersherrif kenny jones is antagonizing Melissa Westfall. He has sent her personal emails as well as posted under different names on the examiner and on this blog. I am disgusted and want this to be put to rest. I understand Melissa Westfall reasons to keep a reminder of Hunter’s story on face book but his actions towards her is extremly unprofessional. Maybe this would give you a window into why my husband need to move on. I think you should be aware of the undersherriff’s actions towards her and the public. By the way, we recently adopted Luka who is adjusting to her family extremly well. We will never forget Hunter and hope to this day he is still doing well. We miss him a great deal but I am sure Jordan is making him very happy. Thank you for your help.

    Sincerely,

    Melissa A. Ribas (previous handler’s wife and will always be Hunter’s mom)

  23. Katie Says:

    Kerry,

    I too would like to Thank You for taking time to put minds at rest regarding Hunters well being. For that, I see you get attacked and insulted. I am certain by watching the cause site for months it was at the request of the family and supporters that you were kind enough to make certain there was no truth to the allegations of Hunter being tortured and inhumanly cared for. I can only assume the other Melissa is unhappy to hear that. That speaks volumes. Would they rather hear Hunter was being treated poorly, depressed and living in less than desirable conditions. I am certain you realize by now nothing is good enough for the people running this cause. If question them you are attacked. If you investigate and find the situation not to be what they claim you are attacked. I am uncertain what they really hope to achieve at this point in keeping a cause site going, other than, for their own personal attention and a power they feel they have over others. The only valid point they may have is that Hunter under went trauma when removed from his first handler. If in fact that was the case, I wonder how they explain the second handler leaving Hunter for another position, aware that Hunter had suffered with his first transition. They choose to blame that on the department. I have found no evidence to suggest that Josefovitz was asked to leave the department or fired. He left of his own free will. I am angered that they choose to spin this very important fact in this story. Who abandoned who? Many felt this situation to be sad. But who is to blame. Certainly not Hunter. The other issue is Hunter’s illness. No where can they even explain the nature of Hunter’s disease. I am heartened to know you as well are very familiar with CDVD and Hunter has a mild murmur with no restrictions at all. I am uncertain where their fight lies at this point. Had they felt that Hunter would suffer through another transition I am at a loss as to why this officer would not remain until his dog was of retirement age and he fulfilled his commitment. I am certain they will lash out with.” there was not any commitment” and scream at those who ? this to go read their cause site. This is a nonsense argument. If officers came and went at will and demanded to take each K9 with them upon resignation, free willed resignation, I image they would have very few well trained K9’s left in the dept. Again Kerry Thank You for taking your valuable time to make certain Hunter is well. Those that care about the well being of all animals are delighted with that news. It is clear by their response to you and those that question them on their cause site, they are not. How very sad.

  24. kerry Says:

    Hi all. This has gotten ugly, so no more comments will be allowed. I appreciate those of you that expressed your opinions courteously. I’m sorry that some people could not express opinions without personal attacks.

    I am thrilled that one of our favorite dogs, Luka, is in a home where he is spoiled rotten and so well loved.

    I am glad to see that Hunter is doing ok too.

    I hope that you all have a wonderful holiday…and put this behind you and move on now.